<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444">I thought I'd join in on the lively <i>none </i>conversation with my two cents, which is, perhaps, better than <i>none</i>. :)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><i>None</i> is an indefinite pronoun, so it can take either a singular or plural verb. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444">Plenty of reputable resources are available to explain further:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><a href="https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/none/">https://www.thesaurus.com/e/grammar/none/</a><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><a href="https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/none-or-none-are">https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/none-or-none-are</a><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><a href="https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-fiction/is-none-singular-or-plural">https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-fiction/is-none-singular-or-plural</a></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><a href="https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/no-none-and-none-of">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/no-none-and-none-of</a><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:#444444"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">Lisa</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">P.S. Bonus points go to those who noticed my example of when to use <i>which</i> in my opening line. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 11:20 AM <<a href="mailto:visionlist-request@visionscience.com">visionlist-request@visionscience.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send visionlist mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: [cvnet] [External] Re: Abbreviations (Gislin Dagnelie)<br>
2. Re: [cvnet] [External] Re: Abbreviations (Lewis, Terri)<br>
3. Re: [cvnet] [External] Re: Abbreviations (Sedat Ozer)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 15:37:38 -0400<br>
From: "Gislin Dagnelie" <<a href="mailto:gislin@lions.med.jhu.edu" target="_blank">gislin@lions.med.jhu.edu</a>><br>
To: "Brian A. BARSKY" <<a href="mailto:barsky@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">barsky@berkeley.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "Lewis, Terri" <<a href="mailto:lewistl@mcmaster.ca" target="_blank">lewistl@mcmaster.ca</a>>, "Todd, James"<br>
<<a href="mailto:todd.44@osu.edu" target="_blank">todd.44@osu.edu</a>>, Gislin Dagnelie <<a href="mailto:gislin@lions.med.jhu.edu" target="_blank">gislin@lions.med.jhu.edu</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [visionlist] [cvnet] [External] Re: Abbreviations<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:626C3E82.32752.1B555562@gislin.lions.med.jhu.edu" target="_blank">626C3E82.32752.1B555562@gislin.lions.med.jhu.edu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
Actually, it's Dutch, where "geen" can be used with singular or plural, <br>
depending on context (as Dwayne pointed out for "none").<br>
<br>
I would think "personne" is not a good equivalent, since it is clearly <br>
singular. "Aucun" would be a better equivalent, but you're right, that too is <br>
used with the singular verb form: "Aucun n'a it..." rather than "aucun n'ont <br>
dit...."<br>
<br>
Gislin<br>
.<br>
<br>
On 29 Apr 2022 at 19:07, Brian A. BARSKY <<a href="mailto:barsky@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">barsky@berkeley.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Gislin, is your native language French? Note that "none" conjugates with the<br>
singular, not plural, in French (e.g., "personne ne donne" not "personne ne<br>
donnent").<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Apr 29, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Gislin Dagnelie via cvnet<br>
<<a href="mailto:cvnet@lawton.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@lawton.ewind.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> IMHO, and admittedly as a non-native speaker, "none" is the linguistic equivalent of<br>
> an empty set, so one can assign either singular or plural to it. Neither is wrong, but<br>
> plural is definitely the common choice. Anyone with more linguistic knowledge, please<br>
> weigh in. <br>
> <br>
> Gislin<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 29 Apr 2022 at 17:56, Todd, James via cvnet <<a href="mailto:todd.44@osu.edu" target="_blank">todd.44@osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I'm sure you are both correct in terms of formal grammar, but "none of them was removed"<br>
> sounds weird to my ear, because "was" immediately follows "them". I'd be curious to know<br>
> statistically what form of the verb the average speaker <br>
of<br>
> English would use in that context. The verb change associated with the<br>
> subjunctive is also grammatically correct, but most English speakers do not<br>
use<br>
> it, at least in the US.<br>
> <br>
> Jim Todd<br>
> ________________________________<br>
> From: Lewis, Terri <<a href="mailto:lewistl@mcmaster.ca" target="_blank">lewistl@mcmaster.ca</a>><br>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2022 1:20 PM<br>
> To: Todd, James <<a href="mailto:todd.44@osu.edu" target="_blank">todd.44@osu.edu</a>><br>
> Cc: Brian Timney <<a href="mailto:timney@uwo.ca" target="_blank">timney@uwo.ca</a>>; Johnson, Chris A<br>
<<a href="mailto:chris-a-johnson@uiowa.edu" target="_blank">chris-a-johnson@uiowa.edu</a>>;<br>
> vabillock <<a href="mailto:vabillock@att.net" target="_blank">vabillock@att.net</a>>; <a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a> <<a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a>>;<br>
> <a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a> <<a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a>><br>
> <br>
> As much as I hate to point out your grammatical error, Todd, I shall. The<br>
> sentence toward the end stating " none of them were" should be " none of<br>
> them was" because the subject is singular. Sent from Terri?s iPhone <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:21:12 +0000<br>
From: "Lewis, Terri" <<a href="mailto:lewistl@mcmaster.ca" target="_blank">lewistl@mcmaster.ca</a>><br>
To: "Horowitz, Todd (NIH/NCI) [E]" <<a href="mailto:todd.horowitz@nih.gov" target="_blank">todd.horowitz@nih.gov</a>><br>
Cc: CV Net <<a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a>>, Vision List<br>
<<a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [visionlist] [cvnet] [External] Re: Abbreviations<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:FA7EC4B7-261E-42C7-9DFF-DA3B93F6777D@mcmaster.ca" target="_blank">FA7EC4B7-261E-42C7-9DFF-DA3B93F6777D@mcmaster.ca</a>><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2022 22:32:44 +0300<br>
From: Sedat Ozer <<a href="mailto:sedatist@gmail.com" target="_blank">sedatist@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:gislin@jhu.edu" target="_blank">gislin@jhu.edu</a><br>
Cc: "Lewis, Terri" <<a href="mailto:lewistl@mcmaster.ca" target="_blank">lewistl@mcmaster.ca</a>>, "Todd, James"<br>
<<a href="mailto:todd.44@osu.edu" target="_blank">todd.44@osu.edu</a>>, Gislin Dagnelie <<a href="mailto:gislin@lions.med.jhu.edu" target="_blank">gislin@lions.med.jhu.edu</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [visionlist] [cvnet] [External] Re: Abbreviations<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CA%2BFfuzXBRewtOBirDZ7Qjhym0CM8fDaqGjAXECPufbL7c4LFwA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CA+FfuzXBRewtOBirDZ7Qjhym0CM8fDaqGjAXECPufbL7c4LFwA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
It seems that language is not a purely logical process to consider, and<br>
there is not only one optimal solution (i.e., there is not only one optimal<br>
and proper way to communicate, as the grammar can change from one region to<br>
another). It has its own rules (which can also evolve over time). The good<br>
part: all of the discussed options can be understood. The editing problem<br>
of manuscripts (on the large scale) seems rather a personal choice of<br>
editors, reviewers etc.<br>
<br>
Sedat Ozer<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 9:57 PM Gislin Dagnelie via cvnet <<br>
<a href="mailto:cvnet@lawton.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@lawton.ewind.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> IMHO, and admittedly as a non-native speaker, "none" is the linguistic<br>
> equivalent of an empty set, so one can assign either singular or plural to<br>
> it.<br>
> Neither is wrong, but plural is definitely the common choice. Anyone with<br>
> more<br>
> linguistic knowledge, please weigh in.<br>
><br>
> Gislin<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 29 Apr 2022 at 17:56, Todd, James via cvnet <<a href="mailto:todd.44@osu.edu" target="_blank">todd.44@osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I'm sure you are both correct in terms of formal grammar, but "none of<br>
> them was<br>
> removed" sounds weird to my ear, because "was" immediately follows "them".<br>
> I'd<br>
> be curious to know statistically what form of the verb the average speaker<br>
> of<br>
> English would use in that context. The verb change associated with the<br>
> subjunctive is also grammatically correct, but most English speakers do<br>
> not use<br>
> it, at least in the US.<br>
><br>
> Jim Todd<br>
> ________________________________<br>
> From: Lewis, Terri <<a href="mailto:lewistl@mcmaster.ca" target="_blank">lewistl@mcmaster.ca</a>><br>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2022 1:20 PM<br>
> To: Todd, James <<a href="mailto:todd.44@osu.edu" target="_blank">todd.44@osu.edu</a>><br>
> Cc: Brian Timney <<a href="mailto:timney@uwo.ca" target="_blank">timney@uwo.ca</a>>; Johnson, Chris A <<br>
> <a href="mailto:chris-a-johnson@uiowa.edu" target="_blank">chris-a-johnson@uiowa.edu</a>>;<br>
> vabillock <<a href="mailto:vabillock@att.net" target="_blank">vabillock@att.net</a>>; <a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a> <<a href="mailto:cvnet@mail.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@mail.ewind.com</a><br>
> >;<br>
> <a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a> <<a href="mailto:visionlist@visionscience.com" target="_blank">visionlist@visionscience.com</a>><br>
><br>
> As much as I hate to point out your grammatical error, Todd, I shall. The<br>
> sentence toward the end stating " none of them were" should be " none of<br>
> them was" because the subject is singular. Sent from Terri?s iPhone<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> cvnet mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:cvnet@lawton.ewind.com" target="_blank">cvnet@lawton.ewind.com</a><br>
> <a href="https://lawton.ewind.com/mailman/listinfo/cvnet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lawton.ewind.com/mailman/listinfo/cvnet</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Sedat Ozer, Ph.D.,<br>
<a href="http://www.SedatOzer.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.SedatOzer.com</a><br>
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